General Discussion -  Desparately seeking conversation (178 views) Subscribe   
  From:  Emerging3   11/23/2004 9:03 pm  
To:  ALL   (1 of 40)  
 
  921.1  
 
Hi,

I'm new to this forum, and was wondering if anyone has looked into and or has any thoughts on the "Emergent Church"

E.
 
  
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  From:  amym38     11/23/2004 11:56 pm  
To:  Emerging3   (2 of 40)  
 
  921.2 in reply to 921.1  
 
What is that?
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   11/24/2004 6:48 am  
To:  amym38    (3 of 40)  
 
  921.3 in reply to 921.2  
 
Indeed, Amy and also heard a new term on my board this morning. "Jihad Jewish Republicans". What on earth are people trying to explain with these two terms? Ie; Emergent church and this one.

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  From:  Emerging3   11/24/2004 9:54 am  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (4 of 40)  
 
  921.4 in reply to 921.3  
 
Hi Bob,

Guess I'll take that as a no. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks anyway,
E.
 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   11/24/2004 10:32 am  
To:  Emerging3   (5 of 40)  
 
  921.5 in reply to 921.4  
 
OH, please don't apologize! We get a lot of questions that we don't know the answers to, but no apologies are necessary. I'm sorry for that matter that I didn't know anything about this.

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  From:  amym38     11/24/2004 2:26 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (6 of 40)  
 
  921.6 in reply to 921.3  
 
Hi Bob,

I have no idea what it means.    I am guessing the person wanted to tell us.    I was expecting a response, but I don't get one I guess.    :)

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  From:  Emerging3   11/24/2004 4:48 pm  
To:  amym38    (7 of 40)  
 
  921.7 in reply to 921.6  
 
Hi Amy,

The discussion is really beyond a quick response post. It's not that you don't get to get a response so much as I don't know where to begin. I was seeking people who had already gotten a taste of ministry to the postmodern world from an "emergent" perspective. Many, if not most Evangelical Christians hear "postmodern" and equate it automatically with relativism, watering down the word of God to make it somehow more "palatable" to the postmodern mindset. Someone had posted some interesting stories related to this topic on another forum, which help explain, at least in part, the ministry toward these folks. If you like, I can post them here. I found them to be very challenging and thought provoking regarding my own "methods", and the underlying ideology that "of course I am doing it right". After all, I've been a student of the scripture for over 20 yrs. Taught VERY well where God has me planted. Yet, these stories and the underlying ministry philosophy has really shaken much of what I believe regarding methodology, causing me to really take a long, hard, serious look at myself.

Let me know about the stories, if you like I can post them here. It's not about calling others methodology wrong, just a larger view of how to do things for the Kingdom of God which pay the best dividends as it were.

God Bless,
E.
 
  
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  From:  amym38     11/24/2004 8:16 pm  
To:  Emerging3   (8 of 40)  
 
  921.8 in reply to 921.7  
 
What do you hope to gain by bringing your doctrine to this forum?
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   11/25/2004 6:21 am  
To:  Emerging3   (9 of 40)  
 
  921.9 in reply to 921.7  
 
As the title of this thread is "Desparately seeking conversation", just what type of conversation are you seeking? 



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  From:  Emerging3   11/25/2004 6:39 am  
To:  amym38    (11 of 40)  
 
  921.11 in reply to 921.8  
 
Amy,

All I'm looking for is to expand my influence for the kingdom of God. I'm not interested in debating, or changing anyone's mind here. I was simply looking for someone already familiar with what I described in previous post.

E.
 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   11/25/2004 9:49 am  
To:  Emerging3   (12 of 40)  
 
  921.12 in reply to 921.11  
 
Which to my knowledge you haven't explained at least to my satisfaction to this point. Just what message are you trying to impart?

If I am a "dollar short and a day late" I am sorry. Been kind of busy the past couple of days. 

Don't get me wrong, here. I KNOW that Lord Jesus desires that we ALL praise Him in any way we can. But just how do you propose to praise Him on this board?

I think you can understand that no one deserves "carte blanche" just because they say they want to "expand their influence of the kingdom of God".

Perhaps you are being too evasive and not forthright enough. Perhaps your ideas are good, but then you have to share some of those ideas don't you. This is your chance to tell us a little more about yourself and what you believe. Don't be shy, and don't be defensive. 

We are NOT here to "jump down your throat" or "argue" with you. On the other hand, I think you can understand that this board has certain restrictions and does it's collective best to live within those restrictions. Having said that, we are open to most any intelligent input and certainly to heartfelt ones that stem from Lord Jesus' prompting. 

Please don't think I am trying to take control from Amy. I am not. On the other hand I am a moderator also, and am as vitally interested in what you wish to say as she is. Not just as a "moderator" (with no control here) but as a Christian brother as well. In fact, I am posting on behalf of the latter, and leaving the "moderator duties" up to Amy, as it should be. 

Abic Bob



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  From:  amym38     11/25/2004 12:47 pm  
To:  Emerging3   (13 of 40)  
 
  921.13 in reply to 921.11  
 
Yeah?    I think most of us who come through here have a pretty good idea where to get knowledge of God's kingdom.    Thanks, just the same.    Best wishes on your endeavor.
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  From:  amym38     11/25/2004 12:49 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (14 of 40)  
 
  921.14 in reply to 921.12  
 
Good post, Bob.

I don't know what he's selling, but I never liked secrets.   It reminds me of the religion of Amway.

:)

Hope you're having a blessed day, dear brother.

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  From:  Emerging3   11/25/2004 5:41 pm  
To:  amym38    (15 of 40)  
 
  921.15 in reply to 921.13  
 
Amy, 

Thanks for the wishes. I am very sorry to have troubled you folks here.

E.
 
  
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  From:  Emerging3   11/25/2004 6:00 pm  
To:  amym38    (16 of 40)  
 
  921.16 in reply to 921.14  
 
Amy,

Just for the record, I am not selling anything. I am simply looking for someone who knows something about the subject. I see that no one here does, and that's OK. If you were to come to me looking to discuss quantum physics, it would seem secretive to me, not knowing anything about the subject. 

I myself know very little about this one, but am intrigued by some of what I read, and would like to discuss it, that's all. 

Once again, I am sorry to have troubled you here,
E.
 
  
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  From:  voiceinthewi   12/19/2004 5:23 pm  
To:  Emerging3   (17 of 40)  
 
  921.17 in reply to 921.11  
 
Hello E-3

Yes, I have read a little about "post-modern" ministry. What is it that you are desparately looking to discuss?

Voiceinthewilderness
 
  
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  From:  Stephen (StephenSeven)    12/20/2004 8:57 am  
To:  amym38    (18 of 40)  
 
  921.18 in reply to 921.2  
 

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amym38: 

Hello. HERE is a definition of "Emerging Church" from a free online dictionary. It's a secular source, obviously, but might shed some light on this movement. I've heard the term before, by the way, but wasn't familiar with its meaning. 




Stephen 









 
Bible-Believer's 
Sanctuary 













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  From:  amym38     12/20/2004 3:03 pm  
To:  Stephen (StephenSeven)    (19 of 40)  
 
  921.19 in reply to 921.18  
 
Thanks!       It sure seems to cover quite a few arenas....a sort of smorgasbord of 'religions' and theology.    While some folks are 'going back to roots,' some are inventing new doctrines out of whole cloth.    Interesting.
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   From:  Stephen (StephenSeven)    12/20/2004 3:22 pm  
To:  amym38    (20 of 40)  
 
  921.20 in reply to 921.19  
 

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"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, / Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith...." 











Yep! And I expect it's going to be like that from here on out. 




Stephen 













 
Bible-Believer's 
Sanctuary 









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From:  amym38     12/20/2004 3:26 pm  
To:  Stephen (StephenSeven)    (21 of 40)  
 
  921.21 in reply to 921.20  
 
yep.
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  From:  Emerging3   12/27/2004 2:33 pm  
To:  voiceinthewi unread  (22 of 40)  
 
  921.22 in reply to 921.17  
 
Hi Voice,

Yeah, I had posted this here about a month ago. It wasn't received very well I'm afraid. I had no intention of bringing some "new" doctrine, but as a newbee I recognize that people here do not know me and are understandably quite skeptical.

I read the following quote recently "Stay committed to your decisions, but stay flexible in your approach." -- Anthony Robbins Now while I'm no devotee to Mr Infomercial himself, there is wisdom in his words, and is relative IMHO to Christianity. That is all I had in mind to discuss, not "re-inventing the wheel" as it were, just maybe looking to see about a minor "front end alignment".

Didn't find much interest, so I moved on.

E.

 
  
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  From:  Voice   12/27/2004 8:29 pm  
To:  Emerging3   (23 of 40)  
 
  921.23 in reply to 921.22  
 
E.

I would be interested in what you'd have to say. I also am a newbee here, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Voiceinthewilderness
 
  
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  From:  Emerging3   12/28/2004 3:33 pm  
To:  Voice   (24 of 40)  
 
  921.24 in reply to 921.23  
 
Hey Voice,

I believe Amy is a moderator here and wrote:

"Thanks, just the same. Best wishes on your endeavor."

I don't think it would be appropriate, or desirable to go against her wishes here. She is after all responsible for this forum, and while I may be misinterpreting her posts, I get the impression I'm persona non grata.

Maybe I'll bump into you on another forum, and we can get into these things there.

E.
 
  
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  From:  Voice   12/29/2004 8:18 pm  
To:  amym38    (25 of 40)  
 
  921.25 in reply to 921.21  
 
Amy,

Would you mind if a couple of newbees had this discussion here at your forum?

Voiceinthewildernesss
 
  
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  From:  amym38     12/29/2004 8:47 pm  
To:  Voice   (26 of 40)  
 
  921.26 in reply to 921.25  
 
It's not my forum.  I'm just a mod.   However, the person you want to engage in discussion wasn't exactly forthcoming in his approach to discuss this, so I figured they weren't really as interested in discussion as they were in 'riling the townsfolk' here.   Hence, my 'no thanks' statement.    I don't know why people want to go to little ol Christian forums to discuss odd doctrine like this.   Don't you all have your own forums somewhere?

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  From:  Voice   12/30/2004 3:33 pm  
To:  amym38    (27 of 40)  
 
  921.27 in reply to 921.26  
 
Amy,

I was wondering if you come from a Calvinist perspective of the faith. I am in no way attempting to pry, denigrate, or offend, but as I re-read this thread, it struck me that might be the case, and makes things more understandable for me.

Voiceinthewilderness
 
  
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  From:  amym38     12/30/2004 4:46 pm  
To:  Voice   (28 of 40)  
 
  921.28 in reply to 921.27  
 
what difference would that make to you?  understand what 'things' better?
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  From:  Voice   12/30/2004 5:21 pm  
To:  amym38    (29 of 40)  
 
  921.29 in reply to 921.28  
 
Amy,

I have a close friend who is a Calvinist. I, not knowing anything about you here at my end of the internet simply heard in your posts some familiar phrases. That's all, really! As to what difference it makes, well really none as far as doctrine goes. My friend refers to his own theological position as "reformed theology". I was simply wondering if you also share this in common with him.

Voiceinthewilderness
 
  
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  From:  amym38     12/30/2004 11:51 pm  
To:  Voice   (30 of 40)  
 
  921.30 in reply to 921.29  
 
Hmmm.

You said if I told you I am a 'Calvinist,' then you could better understand some 'things.'    In regard to this thread or this forum, I really don't think there is any thing for you to understand better by knowing what my doctrinal backround is.

edited to say:   I re-read this whole thread and I said nothing remotely close to anything having to do with Calvinism or any doctrinal position at all, for that matter.    IMO, you two are posers.    You should move along now, as I'm quite sure this is not the only place you have to discuss whatever it is you want to discuss.    bye.

_____________________________

Host:  Speaking The Truth In Love
Asst.: Basic Christian



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Edited 12/31/2004 2:58 am ET by amym38 
  
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  From:  Voice   12/31/2004 3:02 pm  
To:  amym38    (31 of 40)  
 
  921.31 in reply to 921.30  
 
Amy,

I will indeed honor your request to move along now. As for me being a poser, Im not sure I know what that is, except maybe me trying to be something or someone other than who I am. Why would I want to do that?

As for understanding you better knowing your doctrinal backround, how else would I get to know you here in the sterile medium of the internet? I do know a couple of reformers, and your repeated usage of the word doctrine was my clue. It is of paramount import to those reformers I know.

You wrote to Emerging3 I think most of us who come through here have a pretty good idea where to get knowledge of God's kingdom. Thanks, just the same. Best wishes on your endeavor. 

As I read what Emerging wrote, he/she was looking not for knowledge of Gods kingdom, but how to expand their influence in it. Big difference in my mind. Methodology, which was the item up for discussion, to me is simply how we live out the doctrines we hold to be true. Living out the gospel as it were. It seemed a viable topic to discuss to me, but thats just me. I too am looking for ways to influence the lost around me with the good news of Gods forgiveness through the Lord Jesus Christ.

As for Don't you all have your own forums somewhere? Well maybe there are, Im not sure where yet. Im kinda new at the whole forum thing

I will never really understand how this all came to this point, but as you have made it abundantly clear you want NOTHING to do with me or anything I think or might have to say, I guess all I will say at this point is God bless.

Voiceinthewilderness

 
  
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  From:  rbylo   1/8/2005 7:43 pm  
To:  amym38    (32 of 40)  
 
  921.32 in reply to 921.30  
 
Hello Amy,

I have been "lurking" here for a litttle bit now and I must confess.....I don't understand your responses to the posters on this thread. Forgive me........but I just don't get it.

RB
 
  
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  From:  amym38     1/9/2005 2:25 am  
To:  rbylo   (33 of 40)  
 
  921.33 in reply to 921.32  
 
what's to get?

what do you want to know?

how do I answer such a vague post as that?

 

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  From:  TurboCA   1/10/2005 12:07 pm  
To:  Emerging3 unread  (34 of 40)  
 
  921.34 in reply to 921.24  
 
Have you visited any websited on the emerging church? you may find this intersting:

http://www.emergingchurch.org/

as well as this forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/TCOFF which has a statement that its for people seeking to examine what they believe from as much of an unbiased perspective as possible. 

Perhaps with the idea of putting biblical texts well into the culture it was written.? Sounds a bit like this emerging church, not seeking to bring forth any new doctrine just a deeper understanding of biblical roots and maybe shedding some cultural bias that has been incorporated over the years.

is that your understanding of the emerging church? 

I am finding more and more christians who are 'emerging' from the culture they are living in and trying to apply more basic biblical principles rather than the man-made traditions of their institutional church....I think that is what this term is implying but I had never heard it. Thanks!
 
  
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  From:  rbylo   1/10/2005 2:40 pm  
To:  amym38    (35 of 40)  
 
  921.35 in reply to 921.33  
 
Hello Amy,

I am hesitant in posting this, based on how it "could" be received. I continue with it however, hoping for the best of receptions. From where I sit, reading this thread, not knowing any of you, not being able to hear voice inflection, not being able to read body language, not being able to respond immediately as in face to face conversation, it seemed (and I stress here, SEEMED) to me that you were quite harsh in your responses, and not only unwilling to discuss the topic (which is totally fine, I'm not particularly drawn to most topics myself), but even more so, couldn't wait to get rid of 2 of the posters. That's the part I don't get.

The original poster (Emerging I think) seemed to be looking to find someone already out in front of them on this topic that could help fill in some of the blanks for them, and was likened to an Amway salesperson. 

While I would be interested in discussing this myself, I don't understand why you would all but kick these people off the board.

 
  
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  From:  amym38     1/10/2005 4:30 pm  
To:  rbylo   (36 of 40)  
 
  921.36 in reply to 921.35  
 
They wouldn't say what it was that they wanted to discuss.  It was irritating.     I'm a straightforward sort of person.     If someone wants to discuss something, then there better be something to discuss!   Otherwise, they can quit wasting my time.    Pretty simple.       [have you ever met an Amway salesman? oy!]
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  From:  rbylo   1/15/2005 2:43 pm  
To:  amym38    (37 of 40)  
 
  921.37 in reply to 921.36  
 
Hi Amy,

Yes I have met Amway salespeople before, in fact one of my brothers tried to pull that nonsense on the four of us. I must admit though, I don't see the connection.

Once again, the person was looking for someone who already knew something about the subject to discuss it with. Obviously no one who responded knew about it, so why would you think they would move forward in the conversation when there wasn't anyone familiar with the topic? 

You wrote: "Otherwise, they can quit wasting my time. Pretty simple." I was at a loss to understand how anyone was wasting you time. The initial post was "to All", not to Amy. 

Based on what seems like a pretty aggressive qualifing process for topics, and responses here, (Desparately Seeking Conversation as case in point) I think I'll either just go back to lurking or simply move on.

Thank you,
RBylo
 
  
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  From:  amym38     1/15/2005 3:45 pm  
To:  rbylo   (38 of 40)  
 
  921.38 in reply to 921.37  
 
Well, you're certainly entitled to interpret my intentions all you wish.    

You can't understand how if there's nothing to discuss that I find it a waste of time to discuss with someone?      The person would not clue us in to WHAT he wanted to discuss!   lol.    He asked if we knew anything about 'the emerging church' and we [Bob and I]  said no.    Then he went on to say that he wanted to 'affect the kingdom' or whatever.     That doesn't sound to me like he was looking for answers, but more that he was wanting to tell us about his philosophies or doctrine or something.    Which he did NOT do!    So, tell me.....WHAT was there to discuss?    I surely couldn't tell and I'm not going to sit here and try to pull things out of people!     

So, feel free to mosey along and do whatever it is you do.   bye! :) 

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  From:  rbylo   1/17/2005 4:54 pm  
To:  amym38    (39 of 40)  
 
  921.39 in reply to 921.38  
 
Amy,

"The person would not clue us in to WHAT he wanted to discuss!".....

Think of it as similar to when a young child asks a parent "Where do stars, (grass,elphants....pick your own subject)come from?" Does the child have a conversation in mind to have? Or are they looking to the parent for information? The original poster was, like the child, asking for someone who ALREADY KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT THE TOPIC! What is it you don't understand about this? I mean........did you even notice that this post WAS NOT specifically addressed to YOU......but to ALL? And somehow, to you......this was a "waste" of YOUR time. YIKES!

"Then he went on to say that he wanted to 'affect the kingdom' or whatever."

I believe what is written is his wanting to "INFLUENCE" THE KINGDOM of God. Don't YOU want to have an influence on this fallen creation for the Kingdom of God? Isn't that what we're called to do?

Lastly, isn't the purpose of a forum to ATTRACT people, inviting them in to share ideas and points of view relative to a given topic? You seem more interested in getting rid of people than having any meaningful exchanges with them.

 
  
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   From:  amym38     1/17/2005 8:41 pm  
To:  rbylo   (40 of 40)  
 
  921.40 in reply to 921.39  
 
lol. Sorry, but you know what?     You don't make any more sense than he/she did.     I know it was addressed to 'all,' but some posts were also addressed to me.    He/she asked about 'the emerging church,' but when told we know nothing....then that he/she wanted to 'influence the church/kingdom' or whatever.    I know I couldn't figure out for the life of me what they were talking about....and apparently neither could Bob!

that's just a lousy way to try to have a discussion, IMO.      

1. go to a forum and say you're 'desperately seeking conversation.'

2. when taken up on it......asked what about.

3. mention a topic no one at the forum knows anything about..which they KINDLY admit.

4. then say nothing more after that except you want to 'influence the church' [or whatever!]   

5.  then get upset because no one can figure out what you're talking about!    

6. HOW do you want to 'influence' the church?  [in what way?]    (we say)

NOW......I just don't get why YOU need to go on and on and on [and ON] about someone else's non-discussion!      weird.    very weird.

-----------------------------------

here's what the person posted:

Hi Amy,

The discussion is really beyond a quick response post. It's not that you don't get to get a response so much as I don't know where to begin. I was seeking people who had already gotten a taste of ministry to the postmodern world from an "emergent" perspective. Many, if not most Evangelical Christians hear "postmodern" and equate it automatically with relativism, watering down the word of God to make it somehow more "palatable" to the postmodern mindset. Someone had posted some interesting stories related to this topic on another forum, which help explain, at least in part, the ministry toward these folks. If you like, I can post them here. I found them to be very challenging and thought provoking regarding my own "methods", and the underlying ideology that "of course I am doing it right". After all, I've been a student of the scripture for over 20 yrs. Taught VERY well where God has me planted. Yet, these stories and the underlying ministry philosophy has really shaken much of what I believe regarding methodology, causing me to really take a long, hard, serious look at myself.

Let me know about the stories, if you like I can post them here. It's not about calling others methodology wrong, just a larger view of how to do things for the Kingdom of God which pay the best dividends as it were.

God Bless,
E.

--------------

He WAS peddling his/her wares, so to speak......and you know it.    

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Host:  Speaking The Truth In Love
Asst.: Basic Christian



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Edited 1/17/2005 11:46 pm ET by amym38 
  
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